What to Do About Dungeon Master Boredom

Welcome back. Hello there, I'm Justin Lewis here with Tanner Wayland today.

Oh hey, hey, Justin. sorry I was. I was

Uh,

just

uh,

looking at something on my desk and I was like What's that doing there?

M.

I excited to be here.

Yeah, I need to. It's a good day today, because today we were talking about Dungeon master boredom. so two weeks ago

we talked about Dungeon Master Burn out, and two weeks before that we talked about kind of keeping excited as a dungeon

master, And this is really the second part in that two part series of trying to keep your excitement up as a d. M. and

we found that it's really two sides of the same coin. Either you get burnt out as a d M, or you just Bored as a d M.

And to be honest, they are fairly similar in terms of symptoms in terms of how you feel, but I think they're slightly

different in terms of maybe some of the prescriptions, so naturally the first question is what causes Dungeon master

boredom.

Yeah, that's honestly. I think that what causes it? Typically, I find that, Uh, that not having enough variety

in your deming, because in the end deming is we're deming. A game. games are supposed to be fun. Games are

supposed to be varied and provide kind of fun experiences. but we find fun in variety and in new and new things.

And so if you're just kind Stanly, doing the same thing over and over again, I mean you're going to get bored

right. That's kind of the definition of boredom.

Yeah, and even that I think can be like, split out into a few different things, So like as

Yeah,

a d. M. you're doing the same things over and over again, but I think also players can start doing the same things over

and over again, So maybe your players

Yep,

are getting bored right and that's kind of causing like a negative feedback loop.

Yeah, Absolutely. you know. there's the energy in a session. if it ever is like, Hey, the d, M s providing most

of the energy that. then something is gone wrong. Right because it's It's only fun once. everybody's contributing

their part. I think the golden kind of me, and it's like Hey, most like ninety percent of the people at the

table are contributing And maybe one person you know needs a little bit of help and hopefully week to week

it's a different person. But But once, every if everybody is like, all the players especially are the ones

that aren't doing much and they're kind of just on for the ride. Then you know something. You know. something

has got to change.

Yea, so okay, I think before we move on, let's also talk about. Kind of. what does Dungeon Master boredom look like?

What does it feel like? Um, I know from my

Good

perspective,

call.

Um, from my perspective. Boredom. it manifests when I am thinking about preparing for the session and it's sometimes

writers Block can also kind of be in this area Of like, I don't know what to do and there's just very low motivation

to do it. Sometimes when I'm thinking of preparing, I feel like this big like you know, like a weight like I don't

like holding me back from

from preparing.

Yes,

and sometimes I think the boredom manifests during the sessions. when someone's do Something. I'm the d. m. and my thoughts

kind of wander and I'm like like when is this session going to end? At least that's what it feels like for me.

Yeah, I feel exactly the same like when I'm preparing, and I realize that I'm not excited while I'm preparing

and it's not because like Oh, this is going to be a lot. It's rather like. Oh, If I spend a lot of my time

thinking, how can I get the players more involved then that's kind of telling right that? Like

Hm,

Oh, Apparently that's been an issue and I've been feeling it. and maybe the players have been feeling it.

Um, and I can tell that I'm bored just with a preparation. Becaus. I'm constantly thinking it's like, Oh,

how can we actually make those interesting?

Yeah,

On the other hand, if I'm in the in the session and you know I find that I get very bored when I know exactly

what's going to happen, you know, like I do something and I'm like, Oh, the players are going O act this

way and it's going to take this many turns to finish the combat And you know I don't. Maybe that's my asking

too much, but part of me wants to be to have Scenarios in situations where the players feel like they can

add their own piece. right, Um, and so many times when I've just planned everything to a T. or I've planned

a scenario in a way that it's like Hey, there's really only one outcome Then it's going to get boring for me

for them.

Yeah,

Well, maybe not for them, but for me at least right.

Yeah, so it sounds like there are two categories of kind of damn related boredom, so boredom that can sort of be

attributed to the dungeon master, and then boredom that can sort of be attributed to the players. and when I say boredom,

maybe it's lack of interest or or things that

Hm.

are causing this boredom. so let's

Yeah,

let's start with the dungeon master. We said You know, One of the things is that they're doing this Thing over and over

and over again. There's not much variety. So what would cause that lack of variety? in your opinion?

I would say one thing would be if you stop going to outside sources for suggestions for help for ideas. Um, there,

nobody should be in the island unto themselves where they never get help or suggestions Right.

Yeah,

And so I think that you know if you're listening to podcasts like this, I know that sometimes we say things that

you've probably heard plenty of times, but you know even just like learning things that maybe you've forgotten,

Or learning new things that you hadn't heard of learning, and seeing potential opportunities for growth. I

think that that's a great way to to fight you having a boring style of deming, And I don't mean that I, in

an accusatory way, right. I think everybody at some point in their life is going to d M in A in a boring

way, And that's that's normal, because if we don't do that then we can't learn when we're prone for that and

get Or so. so. if you are, you know if your deming style is is boring and you're having any of those tell

tale signs we were talking about, then go outside of yourself. Go onto the internet. There's so much good advice

out there, So so many tools as well. Um, and I think that that's that's a huge first kind of way to help with

that.

Yeah, yeah, I really. I'm going to repeat what you said. Learning and opportunities for growth are one of the best ways

to prevent d. d. M bottom. I think that's what you said.

Yeah,

I think that's so valuable and you know, just recently in my own session prep, I'm a bit of a planner, but

Hm,

I'm also. I'm also not M. like, I'm a discovery writer, but I do not like improve, which is kind of this weird dichotomy.

Uh, but recently in session prep I would write Like if they do this and then this situation arises Like if they get

thrown in jail, then they can ask one of the jail keepers to let them out, and the ail keeper will offer one of three scenarios,

and I didn't expound on the scenarios, other than Saying they asked them to do a job. They asked them to kill someone,

or they ask him to go find this thing, And those are all like low grade side quests. right That would require me to

improve on the spot, so I think maybe

Yeah,

one thing to do like you were saying with learning and growth is provide opportunities for yourself to go into those

areas where you're less practiced. right, Like force yourself.

Yeah,

If you don't know how to do underwater Com At, make them go under water and make yourself learn it. Or if you don't

know how to do stuff in the Astral C, make them do that will not make them, but provide the opportunities so that way

you can learn, kind of have a new experience yourself. right.

Yeah, exactly, and even I would argue. so let's say that you're in a situation where you have less flexibility,

like, like a longer dungeon where it's all kind of the same theme. I think it's absolutely okay as a d. M. to

kind of proud our players in certain directions. I know a lot of D Ms. do this anyway, but I think in the past

I've been guilty of being like. I'll see where they want to go, you know, but it's okay to be like. Oh, there's

Really interesting encounter over there with some mimics. I'm going to have a little child's voice like kind

of playing over there, you know, and then

Yep,

they go into search and then you know the battle happens versus you know, just letting them choose wherever, and

they go into the other room where they fight. You know, a bunch of goblins for the twentieth time you know.

it's okay to if you're doing a pre written adventure to H. So you know, pick and choose what you include. you know,

and then if you're right Your own, never write. the goblin encounters. To begin with, just you know, provide

some different choices of paths and make it so that each path ends in the encounter. You want.

Yeah, yeah, in that way I know, there's a lot of controversially over whether or not Dunton Masters should railroad. And and for

those who are new listeners, railroading is kind of this idea of your players are on this sequence of events that

they can't escape from. They are on a train. They are on the the trail or the tracks, Cash, And they are going to the

destination like the train. Unless it falls off the tracks and things explode. they're not going to leave it. Um,

in my opinion, being a dungeon master is, it's a lot like you know, being the driver for those safari cars at Disney

World, or whatever, going through the Animal Kingdom, Like people have to have this feeling that they, or maybe this

illusion that they can do whatever they want and They can, But in the end you as the dungeon master are the curator

of the story, so if something they want to do is actually pretty boring, you let them do that and then you curate the story,

So that way it's not boring right

Yes,

and you kind of need to pull the strings behind the scenes, and to that effect, my friend sent me this one tik tok

reel or whatever, Basically, And we all know that combat can sometimes be really boring, can be slug.

Hm,

This real explained that a teacher was hosting this club for Dandy At school. It was like middle school. I think

so. During lunch there was like like five tables or something set up and he found one table to be particular ly,

interesting because the players were fighting a dragon and the teacher kind of walked behind the d M screen, and every

time the players were It and do damage, the dam would be like, Oh, that's awesome. You did this much damage. He's looking

like this, and he would see that the D M wasn't keeping track of the health, and afterwards the teacher asked the D m

and said Hey, Why did you do that And the D M. said The dragon dies when it stops being fun to fight the dragon,

And I think while with certain players you might not be able to do that exactly because minmaxers and things like

that that you know they play for that reason. But if you're in a combat and you've you've reached that moment, there's

nothing wrong with adding in something new or changing it up to make the encounter more fun. Maybe the big boss dies,

or maybe

Yeah,

for some reason he splits into two and there's two of them now and they have less health. But you know there's nothing

wrong with. Like I said, the players went where they wanted to. It's not as fun as they wanted it to be. So it's your

job to add something or take something away To make it more like what they wanted.

Yeah, exactly you, as the d. M. and I think that this is paramount to our topic. You have all the control

in the world that you want. You know. if something is boring, no one's going to help it better than you. You know

no one is going to make it change better than you. And that's especially true of combat. You know, I know that

sometimes combats feel like you know kind of a rote thing that you can't do too much with That's not true.

You can Absolutely change up the scenario, change up, the situation, split off the boss with one of the players,

and then the other players have a time attack kind of thing where they're trying to get to the player and keep

them from dying. You know, whatever it is, you have that flexibility and kind of my last thing on. At least

how a d M can keep from being bored. Boring before we move on to the players. My last thing with a d M should

always have goals for how to improve, And I, I mean, specifically look at the different parts of play and

the different parts of deming combat, being one of them, role playing being one of them, M, world building

being another, And think like key, Which of these is kind of boring to me, you know, and just be objective

in that moment and then make goals right. I said this in in a podcast about combat tips. But if combats boring,

chances are you're not timing turns, you know. And and that's a simple goal that you could have is like you

know what? for this next session. For the next few sessions, I'm going to time every turn and obviously keeping

the rule of fun in mind right, but I'm going to time turns so that things are more speedy and see how that

works, and then for the next like goal it could be. I'm going to practice some different accents. You know, I'm

going to ook up some videos online. Going to look up accent generators, and then and then that would make

my. We're all playing fun. If you have goals much as it is in life. you're going to find that your damming

is just a lot more exciting.

Yeah, I completely agree to that effect. I think they're You know, like I said before, there are places in Dungeon Mastering

that we don't go because we're uncomfortable or we feel we're not prepared. In my opinion, those are exactly the places

you should go. You should definitely not feel afraid of failing trying a new accent Because your players are going

to laugh at you, and while they're not laughing with you, they're laughing at you. That's totally fine. That's great.

like There, To make it so ourselves and the players can have fun as long as they're not laughing at you in like a

very mean spirited way. but like Tanner said, take some time to identify those areas where you can improve, even down

to you know, this particular rule gives me a headache or this accent. This single accent is super hard for me, or I

don't know how to use this one, n, p. C, and then practice that you know, and do it in a very free, sir, Did we? So your

players are aware that you haven't you know, tied your ego to it, so that way they can laugh at it and you can laugh,

and everyone can have a good time. Um, so moving on to kind of the next aspect. Naturally, dungeon masters, we have

our whole slue of things to do to make sure we don't get bored, but our players can sometimes not not try as hard

as they could,

Yeah,

so the next question is how do we get our players To maybe give a little bit more to the game.

Yeah, yeah, I think a key part is making sure that you have the environment where players feel like they can

add to the game. Right. You talked about railroading, and big reason why people are against railroading is because,

a lot of times when the player tries to do something different, the d M makes it so it just doesn't work. period because

it doesn't work with our big vision. Like, for example, a player that's a rogue, You're in a town, and instead

of focusing I kind of the mission quote, Unquote the rod, like Hey, I go out every evening and I rob a house and

M.

you're like, Do I have to play this out or do I just give them free money or what you know? Um, and it's not

in your plan, so you make, so you just stress about it and then the player can tell that you're not really

making this either easy or enjoyable for them. And then suddenly you've hit an impact and then that player knows

Okay from now on I'm not going to try things like that, you know, So they have to feel like whatever they

want to try, You're going to try and play ball, so to speak, and make it an interesting fun experience. Whatever

it is.

That particular example is, it's fascinating to me because it's one that is so probable yet.

Well

even

it happened

as you

to

say

me.

it,

That's that's why I was like.

even as you say it, I'm like. What would I do like Because that's essentially either you come up with a full list of different

houses and different scenarios or you know like So I'm curious. What did you do in that instance?

I don't think I did well like I think I, for the first like two times I actually like pulled up a house lay

out and I tried role playing it and and it just wasn't super great because I wasn't prepared. I also

Hm,

didn't love the fact that I was like these are just harmless villagers, you know, and I wasn't having fun with

it, which, if I had looking back, you know, now that I'm past that phase. If Did it, I would have totally

had him run into the house of like just the scariest like serial killer huntsman, You know

Yeah,

who's just like sharpening an ax while there is like a bleeding out dead bear on the ground, you know, and

he's like I was getting bored. You know something like that, right, M. instead, I was like, Oh, I've got to be

real to the thing you know, and these are just villagers. And of course then it kind of took the fun out. Becaus.

In my mind, The thing I was worried about is like I'm like, I don't. I just don't want to give this player

a bunch of gold because they happened to be in a town that's lower leveled that you know. most of the random

villagers aren't going to be doing. You know, aren't going to be really versed in self defense, And so

Hm,

I overthought it, and I didn't make it as fun as I could have. Honestly what I would have done going back like

I said. It's just being more flexible like Hey, if they're doing something that like Okay, Maybe it might give

them some extra gold throw in an extra challenge and make it fun. You know, I think that there's a lot of opportunities

there or you, if you don't care enough like, I think the other option that I probably should have done since

I wasn't in that kind of like really good, Improve minds that I should have just had them roll. And if they got

below a certain number, all the houses were locked. If they got above a certain number, Ah, they

M,

got in, Got a couple of pieces of gold, but then they got Chased out. Oh, they rolled rolled above it. When

you know, then they got plenty

Hm,

or something right.

Yeah,

I should have been more flexible that way, but instead I was like, what's he doing? you know, and

Yeah,

that didn't work out.

yeah, see, I think that's such an interesting situation because it brings in a lot of other aspects, so for example,

like you might go the route of playing it out a lot more, and kind of like developing that. I would only recommend

that if your other players can sit still and listen

Yes,

for that much time.

exactly

Otherwise you know role, move forward. The other thing that came to my mind is when your players do something Unexpected.

It's uh, it might be a good idea to also do something unexpected

Yes,

with what they're doing. So like you said, like, like you know, in my mind, I took it a step further. you know, they

robbed two houses. The local authorities are getting wise and so they start looking for this robber. Right and then

Hm,

the third house is actually someone who just murdered someone. So like you break in and you see a dead body and a serial

killer And either you fight the serial killer or you don't. But if you do, the local authorities start like you know.

In the next day they praise you Nd. they're like Hey, let's give a medal to this person. Meanwhile they're like Wow,

you have a lot of gold and kind of that idea of like,

Hm,

they're starting to look at you a little bit more critically because they're looking for this raburns anyway.

Yeah,

Um, kind of that unexpected aspect. The other thing I would add is with reward comes risk,

Yeah,

Right If they're go To get a reward, there needs to be some sort of risk. Uh, So with your idea of the roles, if

they're going to get money like they roll above a fifteen, they get money. I'd say if they roll below at five, they might

get thrown in jail.

Yeah,

you know.

exactly, and they lose a lot of money getting the bail or something

Yeah,

right.

Yeah, exactly. so I love that example like that. That's probably the best example in like the last ten podcasts we've

done just because it's so perfect, because it's going to happen right

Yep,

and it's like, what do you do? So

Yeah, and I think I love your suggestions because it's like it shows a fluidity. And and one thing I would have

told my younger self with this is be like Hey for the first session, you know, just make a goofy. Maybe give

them more than they'd expect. Not like a whole treasure load right, But give them a bit more then then you'd

maybe want to, and then between sessions think it out. Think about. hey, How can I do this in a way That's unexpected

for them Because they pulled one on me. What can I pull on them? That isn't just necessarily completely bad

Because you don't want to punish them. You know you want to make

Hm?

it fun. And I like your suggestion by. like, Hey, They actually got into the house. They caught the person

and then the town. They're here now, but now everybody knows their face, So if someone goes and gets robbed

by them, you know the police

Yeah,

know where to go. M.

exactly,

Yeah, so I love that and I think that You know if you have a hard time responding to players creativity, what

I would do is. Uh, is you know you're going to have to practice it, But also if it's a longer form creativity

kind of thing, and players like, Hey, I'd like to do this. Then find a way to postpone it. You know, Have an

m. p. C be like. Oh, you want to go to that bridge and in your mind you're thinking I haven't planned the

bridge. The bridge is nowhere in my mind, then have an M. p C B. Like, Oh, actually, the river over Flood. It

overflowed the other day. However, I hear in a day or two it should be down and then

M.

after that session you go and plan something that you're like fun. Let's make this actually really fun instead

of something that I'm throwing together last minute that I'm sure I might show some of my impatient, or my.

you know,

Yeah,

my lack of being flexible with right,

Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with asking your players outright Like I'll be honest. This might have broken the immersion,

but our last session, the players like the session ended with them outside the city walls of Water Deep, planning to go

inside. And so I literally said, I ended and I said, Okay, Next session you will be going into water deep, because

you already said we're going into water deep.

Hm,

So I want to know what are things you want to do in Water deep. You know, I literally went around the table and I

asked them, and I wrote it all down and over these last few weeks I've been preparing and you know things like that,

there's going to be stuff that they didn't tell me or what not, but at least this way when they're like, Oh, I want

to go sell this dwarf in funeral mask. I'm gonna be like cool. You go to find you know, and I'm going to have kind

of an answer that makes them feel honestly. It makes them feel important because

Yeah,

they're like. Oh, you know,

I'm more immersed as well because you've had time to prepare.

Yeah,

That's great. Honestly, I agree. I think a big part of preventing boredom from like the aspect of the players

not contributing is asking them what they like to do Right. If you ask them their plans, their hopes their goals

for their character, then you'll be able to prepare for it and you'll be able to give them something really

good in return.

Exactly exactly. I mean. I'm sure there's lots of other stuff we could add. We're actually kind of running up on time,

so last thing I would say is if your players are not contributing in the way, you'd like them to sit down and have

a chat with them, and if needed, have just a session with just them so they can really get to feel what it's like

to have the spotlight on them, you know, and have fun like that, But try those two things and see if that helps Anything

else. You'd like

Yeah,

to add Tanner.

uh, no, I think that we've said it pretty well, and and in many ways the like. While we give specific tips, there's

certain types of fields. to what creative and an energizing game is like, right. a creative

Hm,

game is, and an energizing game is one where you can feel the d M getting better session after session. It's

one where you can feel like the players are Contributing in the creation process and they're being heard

and communication is just flowing both ways, right, um, and whatever form that takes great, But if you're

able to do that then I think you're gonna have a hard time getting bored.

Exactly exactly. So thank you for listening to today's show. Uh, we hope that your boredom or burn out disappears. And

and if it does or doesn't let us know, go ahead and reach out to us on Instagram at how to be a better D. M. we'll

be back next week for another amazing episode, But until then let's go ahead and roll initiative.