What to Do About Dungeon Master Boredom

[justin]: 00:00:06

Welcome back. Hello there, I'm Justin Lewis here with Tanner Wayland today.

[tanner_weyland] 00:00:11

Oh hey, hey, Justin. sorry I was. I was

[justin]: 00:00:14

Uh,

[tanner_weyland] 00:00:14

just

[justin]: 00:00:14

uh,

[tanner_weyland] 00:00:14

looking at something on my desk and I was like What's that doing there?

[justin]: 00:00:18

M.

[tanner_weyland] 00:00:18

I excited to be here.

[justin]: 00:00:20

Yeah, I need to. It's a good day today, because today we were talking about Dungeon master boredom. so two weeks ago

[justin]: 00:00:28

we talked about Dungeon Master Burn out, and two weeks before that we talked about kind of keeping excited as a dungeon

[justin]: 00:00:35

master, And this is really the second part in that two part series of trying to keep your excitement up as a d. M. and

[justin]: 00:00:44

we found that it's really two sides of the same coin. Either you get burnt out as a d M, or you just Bored as a d M.

[justin]: 00:00:51

And to be honest, they are fairly similar in terms of symptoms in terms of how you feel, but I think they're slightly

[justin]: 00:01:01

different in terms of maybe some of the prescriptions, so naturally the first question is what causes Dungeon master

[justin]: 00:01:10

boredom.

[tanner_weyland] 00:01:13

Yeah, that's honestly. I think that what causes it? Typically, I find that, Uh, that not having enough variety

[tanner_weyland] 00:01:24

in your deming, because in the end deming is we're deming. A game. games are supposed to be fun. Games are

[tanner_weyland] 00:01:30

supposed to be varied and provide kind of fun experiences. but we find fun in variety and in new and new things.

[tanner_weyland] 00:01:42

And so if you're just kind Stanly, doing the same thing over and over again, I mean you're going to get bored

[tanner_weyland] 00:01:46

right. That's kind of the definition of boredom.

[justin]: 00:01:49

Yeah, and even that I think can be like, split out into a few different things, So like as

[tanner_weyland] 00:01:58

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:01:58

a d. M. you're doing the same things over and over again, but I think also players can start doing the same things over

[justin]: 00:02:06

and over again, So maybe your players

[tanner_weyland] 00:02:07

Yep,

[justin]: 00:02:08

are getting bored right and that's kind of causing like a negative feedback loop.

[tanner_weyland] 00:02:12

Yeah, Absolutely. you know. there's the energy in a session. if it ever is like, Hey, the d, M s providing most

[tanner_weyland] 00:02:20

of the energy that. then something is gone wrong. Right because it's It's only fun once. everybody's contributing

[tanner_weyland] 00:02:27

their part. I think the golden kind of me, and it's like Hey, most like ninety percent of the people at the

[tanner_weyland] 00:02:34

table are contributing And maybe one person you know needs a little bit of help and hopefully week to week

[tanner_weyland] 00:02:40

it's a different person. But But once, every if everybody is like, all the players especially are the ones

[tanner_weyland] 00:02:47

that aren't doing much and they're kind of just on for the ride. Then you know something. You know. something

[tanner_weyland] 00:02:53

has got to change.

[justin]: 00:02:55

Yea, so okay, I think before we move on, let's also talk about. Kind of. what does Dungeon Master boredom look like?

[justin]: 00:03:03

What does it feel like? Um, I know from my

[tanner_weyland] 00:03:06

Good

[justin]: 00:03:06

perspective,

[tanner_weyland] 00:03:06

call.

[justin]: 00:03:07

Um, from my perspective. Boredom. it manifests when I am thinking about preparing for the session and it's sometimes

[justin]: 00:03:22

writers Block can also kind of be in this area Of like, I don't know what to do and there's just very low motivation

[justin]: 00:03:29

to do it. Sometimes when I'm thinking of preparing, I feel like this big like you know, like a weight like I don't

[justin]: 00:03:41

like holding me back from

[justin]: 00:03:45

from preparing.

[tanner_weyland] 00:03:48

Yes,

[justin]: 00:03:48

and sometimes I think the boredom manifests during the sessions. when someone's do Something. I'm the d. m. and my thoughts

[justin]: 00:03:56

kind of wander and I'm like like when is this session going to end? At least that's what it feels like for me.

[tanner_weyland] 00:04:04

Yeah, I feel exactly the same like when I'm preparing, and I realize that I'm not excited while I'm preparing

[tanner_weyland] 00:04:11

and it's not because like Oh, this is going to be a lot. It's rather like. Oh, If I spend a lot of my time

[tanner_weyland] 00:04:17

thinking, how can I get the players more involved then that's kind of telling right that? Like

[justin]: 00:04:23

Hm,

[tanner_weyland] 00:04:23

Oh, Apparently that's been an issue and I've been feeling it. and maybe the players have been feeling it.

[tanner_weyland] 00:04:29

Um, and I can tell that I'm bored just with a preparation. Becaus. I'm constantly thinking it's like, Oh,

[tanner_weyland] 00:04:34

how can we actually make those interesting?

[justin]: 00:04:38

Yeah,

[tanner_weyland] 00:04:38

On the other hand, if I'm in the in the session and you know I find that I get very bored when I know exactly

[tanner_weyland] 00:04:47

what's going to happen, you know, like I do something and I'm like, Oh, the players are going O act this

[tanner_weyland] 00:04:54

way and it's going to take this many turns to finish the combat And you know I don't. Maybe that's my asking

[tanner_weyland] 00:05:00

too much, but part of me wants to be to have Scenarios in situations where the players feel like they can

[tanner_weyland] 00:05:08

add their own piece. right, Um, and so many times when I've just planned everything to a T. or I've planned

[tanner_weyland] 00:05:16

a scenario in a way that it's like Hey, there's really only one outcome Then it's going to get boring for me

[tanner_weyland] 00:05:22

for them.

[justin]: 00:05:23

Yeah,

[tanner_weyland] 00:05:23

Well, maybe not for them, but for me at least right.

[justin]: 00:05:26

Yeah, so it sounds like there are two categories of kind of damn related boredom, so boredom that can sort of be

[justin]: 00:05:36

attributed to the dungeon master, and then boredom that can sort of be attributed to the players. and when I say boredom,

[justin]: 00:05:43

maybe it's lack of interest or or things that

[tanner_weyland] 00:05:47

Hm.

[justin]: 00:05:47

are causing this boredom. so let's

[tanner_weyland] 00:05:50

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:05:50

let's start with the dungeon master. We said You know, One of the things is that they're doing this Thing over and over

[justin]: 00:05:57

and over again. There's not much variety. So what would cause that lack of variety? in your opinion?

[tanner_weyland] 00:06:06

I would say one thing would be if you stop going to outside sources for suggestions for help for ideas. Um, there,

[tanner_weyland] 00:06:15

nobody should be in the island unto themselves where they never get help or suggestions Right.

[justin]: 00:06:22

Yeah,

[tanner_weyland] 00:06:22

And so I think that you know if you're listening to podcasts like this, I know that sometimes we say things that

[tanner_weyland] 00:06:28

you've probably heard plenty of times, but you know even just like learning things that maybe you've forgotten,

[tanner_weyland] 00:06:35

Or learning new things that you hadn't heard of learning, and seeing potential opportunities for growth. I

[tanner_weyland] 00:06:43

think that that's a great way to to fight you having a boring style of deming, And I don't mean that I, in

[tanner_weyland] 00:06:53

an accusatory way, right. I think everybody at some point in their life is going to d M in A in a boring

[tanner_weyland] 00:06:58

way, And that's that's normal, because if we don't do that then we can't learn when we're prone for that and

[tanner_weyland] 00:07:05

get Or so. so. if you are, you know if your deming style is is boring and you're having any of those tell

[tanner_weyland] 00:07:12

tale signs we were talking about, then go outside of yourself. Go onto the internet. There's so much good advice

[tanner_weyland] 00:07:19

out there, So so many tools as well. Um, and I think that that's that's a huge first kind of way to help with

[tanner_weyland] 00:07:26

that.

[justin]: 00:07:28

Yeah, yeah, I really. I'm going to repeat what you said. Learning and opportunities for growth are one of the best ways

[justin]: 00:07:37

to prevent d. d. M bottom. I think that's what you said.

[tanner_weyland] 00:07:42

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:07:42

I think that's so valuable and you know, just recently in my own session prep, I'm a bit of a planner, but

[tanner_weyland] 00:07:53

Hm,

[justin]: 00:07:55

I'm also. I'm also not M. like, I'm a discovery writer, but I do not like improve, which is kind of this weird dichotomy.

[justin]: 00:08:05

Uh, but recently in session prep I would write Like if they do this and then this situation arises Like if they get

[justin]: 00:08:14

thrown in jail, then they can ask one of the jail keepers to let them out, and the ail keeper will offer one of three scenarios,

[justin]: 00:08:22

and I didn't expound on the scenarios, other than Saying they asked them to do a job. They asked them to kill someone,

[justin]: 00:08:28

or they ask him to go find this thing, And those are all like low grade side quests. right That would require me to

[justin]: 00:08:37

improve on the spot, so I think maybe

[tanner_weyland] 00:08:39

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:08:39

one thing to do like you were saying with learning and growth is provide opportunities for yourself to go into those

[justin]: 00:08:48

areas where you're less practiced. right, Like force yourself.

[tanner_weyland] 00:08:52

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:08:53

If you don't know how to do underwater Com At, make them go under water and make yourself learn it. Or if you don't

[justin]: 00:08:59

know how to do stuff in the Astral C, make them do that will not make them, but provide the opportunities so that way

[justin]: 00:09:06

you can learn, kind of have a new experience yourself. right.

[tanner_weyland] 00:09:12

Yeah, exactly, and even I would argue. so let's say that you're in a situation where you have less flexibility,

[tanner_weyland] 00:09:21

like, like a longer dungeon where it's all kind of the same theme. I think it's absolutely okay as a d. M. to

[tanner_weyland] 00:09:29

kind of proud our players in certain directions. I know a lot of D Ms. do this anyway, but I think in the past

[tanner_weyland] 00:09:36

I've been guilty of being like. I'll see where they want to go, you know, but it's okay to be like. Oh, there's

[tanner_weyland] 00:09:42

Really interesting encounter over there with some mimics. I'm going to have a little child's voice like kind

[tanner_weyland] 00:09:51

of playing over there, you know, and then

[justin]: 00:09:53

Yep,

[tanner_weyland] 00:09:53

they go into search and then you know the battle happens versus you know, just letting them choose wherever, and

[tanner_weyland] 00:09:58

they go into the other room where they fight. You know, a bunch of goblins for the twentieth time you know.

[tanner_weyland] 00:10:04

it's okay to if you're doing a pre written adventure to H. So you know, pick and choose what you include. you know,

[tanner_weyland] 00:10:11

and then if you're right Your own, never write. the goblin encounters. To begin with, just you know, provide

[tanner_weyland] 00:10:18

some different choices of paths and make it so that each path ends in the encounter. You want.

[justin]: 00:10:26

Yeah, yeah, in that way I know, there's a lot of controversially over whether or not Dunton Masters should railroad. And and for

[justin]: 00:10:38

those who are new listeners, railroading is kind of this idea of your players are on this sequence of events that

[justin]: 00:10:48

they can't escape from. They are on a train. They are on the the trail or the tracks, Cash, And they are going to the

[justin]: 00:10:57

destination like the train. Unless it falls off the tracks and things explode. they're not going to leave it. Um,

[justin]: 00:11:05

in my opinion, being a dungeon master is, it's a lot like you know, being the driver for those safari cars at Disney

[justin]: 00:11:14

World, or whatever, going through the Animal Kingdom, Like people have to have this feeling that they, or maybe this

[justin]: 00:11:23

illusion that they can do whatever they want and They can, But in the end you as the dungeon master are the curator

[justin]: 00:11:31

of the story, so if something they want to do is actually pretty boring, you let them do that and then you curate the story,

[justin]: 00:11:40

So that way it's not boring right

[tanner_weyland] 00:11:44

Yes,

[justin]: 00:11:44

and you kind of need to pull the strings behind the scenes, and to that effect, my friend sent me this one tik tok

[justin]: 00:11:53

reel or whatever, Basically, And we all know that combat can sometimes be really boring, can be slug.

[tanner_weyland] 00:12:01

Hm,

[justin]: 00:12:02

This real explained that a teacher was hosting this club for Dandy At school. It was like middle school. I think

[justin]: 00:12:10

so. During lunch there was like like five tables or something set up and he found one table to be particular ly,

[justin]: 00:12:17

interesting because the players were fighting a dragon and the teacher kind of walked behind the d M screen, and every

[justin]: 00:12:25

time the players were It and do damage, the dam would be like, Oh, that's awesome. You did this much damage. He's looking

[justin]: 00:12:31

like this, and he would see that the D M wasn't keeping track of the health, and afterwards the teacher asked the D m

[justin]: 00:12:37

and said Hey, Why did you do that And the D M. said The dragon dies when it stops being fun to fight the dragon,

[justin]: 00:12:45

And I think while with certain players you might not be able to do that exactly because minmaxers and things like

[justin]: 00:12:53

that that you know they play for that reason. But if you're in a combat and you've you've reached that moment, there's

[justin]: 00:13:02

nothing wrong with adding in something new or changing it up to make the encounter more fun. Maybe the big boss dies,

[justin]: 00:13:09

or maybe

[tanner_weyland] 00:13:09

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:13:09

for some reason he splits into two and there's two of them now and they have less health. But you know there's nothing

[justin]: 00:13:16

wrong with. Like I said, the players went where they wanted to. It's not as fun as they wanted it to be. So it's your

[justin]: 00:13:23

job to add something or take something away To make it more like what they wanted.

[tanner_weyland] 00:13:29

Yeah, exactly you, as the d. M. and I think that this is paramount to our topic. You have all the control

[tanner_weyland] 00:13:37

in the world that you want. You know. if something is boring, no one's going to help it better than you. You know

[tanner_weyland] 00:13:45

no one is going to make it change better than you. And that's especially true of combat. You know, I know that

[tanner_weyland] 00:13:51

sometimes combats feel like you know kind of a rote thing that you can't do too much with That's not true.

[tanner_weyland] 00:13:58

You can Absolutely change up the scenario, change up, the situation, split off the boss with one of the players,

[tanner_weyland] 00:14:04

and then the other players have a time attack kind of thing where they're trying to get to the player and keep

[tanner_weyland] 00:14:09

them from dying. You know, whatever it is, you have that flexibility and kind of my last thing on. At least

[tanner_weyland] 00:14:18

how a d M can keep from being bored. Boring before we move on to the players. My last thing with a d M should

[tanner_weyland] 00:14:25

always have goals for how to improve, And I, I mean, specifically look at the different parts of play and

[tanner_weyland] 00:14:33

the different parts of deming combat, being one of them, role playing being one of them, M, world building

[tanner_weyland] 00:14:40

being another, And think like key, Which of these is kind of boring to me, you know, and just be objective

[tanner_weyland] 00:14:46

in that moment and then make goals right. I said this in in a podcast about combat tips. But if combats boring,

[tanner_weyland] 00:14:55

chances are you're not timing turns, you know. And and that's a simple goal that you could have is like you

[tanner_weyland] 00:15:03

know what? for this next session. For the next few sessions, I'm going to time every turn and obviously keeping

[tanner_weyland] 00:15:09

the rule of fun in mind right, but I'm going to time turns so that things are more speedy and see how that

[tanner_weyland] 00:15:14

works, and then for the next like goal it could be. I'm going to practice some different accents. You know, I'm

[tanner_weyland] 00:15:21

going to ook up some videos online. Going to look up accent generators, and then and then that would make

[tanner_weyland] 00:15:28

my. We're all playing fun. If you have goals much as it is in life. you're going to find that your damming

[tanner_weyland] 00:15:34

is just a lot more exciting.

[justin]: 00:15:37

Yeah, I completely agree to that effect. I think they're You know, like I said before, there are places in Dungeon Mastering

[justin]: 00:15:45

that we don't go because we're uncomfortable or we feel we're not prepared. In my opinion, those are exactly the places

[justin]: 00:15:53

you should go. You should definitely not feel afraid of failing trying a new accent Because your players are going

[justin]: 00:15:59

to laugh at you, and while they're not laughing with you, they're laughing at you. That's totally fine. That's great.

[justin]: 00:16:06

like There, To make it so ourselves and the players can have fun as long as they're not laughing at you in like a

[justin]: 00:16:12

very mean spirited way. but like Tanner said, take some time to identify those areas where you can improve, even down

[justin]: 00:16:22

to you know, this particular rule gives me a headache or this accent. This single accent is super hard for me, or I

[justin]: 00:16:30

don't know how to use this one, n, p. C, and then practice that you know, and do it in a very free, sir, Did we? So your

[justin]: 00:16:38

players are aware that you haven't you know, tied your ego to it, so that way they can laugh at it and you can laugh,

[justin]: 00:16:44

and everyone can have a good time. Um, so moving on to kind of the next aspect. Naturally, dungeon masters, we have

[justin]: 00:16:52

our whole slue of things to do to make sure we don't get bored, but our players can sometimes not not try as hard

[justin]: 00:17:02

as they could,

[tanner_weyland] 00:17:03

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:17:03

so the next question is how do we get our players To maybe give a little bit more to the game.

[tanner_weyland] 00:17:12

Yeah, yeah, I think a key part is making sure that you have the environment where players feel like they can

[tanner_weyland] 00:17:19

add to the game. Right. You talked about railroading, and big reason why people are against railroading is because,

[tanner_weyland] 00:17:28

a lot of times when the player tries to do something different, the d M makes it so it just doesn't work. period because

[tanner_weyland] 00:17:33

it doesn't work with our big vision. Like, for example, a player that's a rogue, You're in a town, and instead

[tanner_weyland] 00:17:41

of focusing I kind of the mission quote, Unquote the rod, like Hey, I go out every evening and I rob a house and

[justin]: 00:17:48

M.

[tanner_weyland] 00:17:48

you're like, Do I have to play this out or do I just give them free money or what you know? Um, and it's not

[tanner_weyland] 00:17:56

in your plan, so you make, so you just stress about it and then the player can tell that you're not really

[tanner_weyland] 00:18:01

making this either easy or enjoyable for them. And then suddenly you've hit an impact and then that player knows

[tanner_weyland] 00:18:08

Okay from now on I'm not going to try things like that, you know, So they have to feel like whatever they

[tanner_weyland] 00:18:14

want to try, You're going to try and play ball, so to speak, and make it an interesting fun experience. Whatever

[tanner_weyland] 00:18:21

it is.

[justin]: 00:18:23

That particular example is, it's fascinating to me because it's one that is so probable yet.

[tanner_weyland] 00:18:30

Well

[justin]: 00:18:30

even

[tanner_weyland] 00:18:31

it happened

[justin]: 00:18:31

as you

[tanner_weyland] 00:18:31

to

[justin]: 00:18:31

say

[tanner_weyland] 00:18:31

me.

[justin]: 00:18:31

it,

[tanner_weyland] 00:18:31

That's that's why I was like.

[justin]: 00:18:34

even as you say it, I'm like. What would I do like Because that's essentially either you come up with a full list of different

[justin]: 00:18:41

houses and different scenarios or you know like So I'm curious. What did you do in that instance?

[tanner_weyland] 00:18:47

I don't think I did well like I think I, for the first like two times I actually like pulled up a house lay

[tanner_weyland] 00:18:57

out and I tried role playing it and and it just wasn't super great because I wasn't prepared. I also

[justin]: 00:19:05

Hm,

[tanner_weyland] 00:19:05

didn't love the fact that I was like these are just harmless villagers, you know, and I wasn't having fun with

[tanner_weyland] 00:19:11

it, which, if I had looking back, you know, now that I'm past that phase. If Did it, I would have totally

[tanner_weyland] 00:19:18

had him run into the house of like just the scariest like serial killer huntsman, You know

[justin]: 00:19:26

Yeah,

[tanner_weyland] 00:19:27

who's just like sharpening an ax while there is like a bleeding out dead bear on the ground, you know, and

[tanner_weyland] 00:19:33

he's like I was getting bored. You know something like that, right, M. instead, I was like, Oh, I've got to be

[tanner_weyland] 00:19:40

real to the thing you know, and these are just villagers. And of course then it kind of took the fun out. Becaus.

[tanner_weyland] 00:19:47

In my mind, The thing I was worried about is like I'm like, I don't. I just don't want to give this player

[tanner_weyland] 00:19:53

a bunch of gold because they happened to be in a town that's lower leveled that you know. most of the random

[tanner_weyland] 00:19:59

villagers aren't going to be doing. You know, aren't going to be really versed in self defense, And so

[justin]: 00:20:06

Hm,

[tanner_weyland] 00:20:06

I overthought it, and I didn't make it as fun as I could have. Honestly what I would have done going back like

[tanner_weyland] 00:20:12

I said. It's just being more flexible like Hey, if they're doing something that like Okay, Maybe it might give

[tanner_weyland] 00:20:18

them some extra gold throw in an extra challenge and make it fun. You know, I think that there's a lot of opportunities

[tanner_weyland] 00:20:26

there or you, if you don't care enough like, I think the other option that I probably should have done since

[tanner_weyland] 00:20:32

I wasn't in that kind of like really good, Improve minds that I should have just had them roll. And if they got

[tanner_weyland] 00:20:39

below a certain number, all the houses were locked. If they got above a certain number, Ah, they

[justin]: 00:20:44

M,

[tanner_weyland] 00:20:44

got in, Got a couple of pieces of gold, but then they got Chased out. Oh, they rolled rolled above it. When

[tanner_weyland] 00:20:49

you know, then they got plenty

[justin]: 00:20:51

Hm,

[tanner_weyland] 00:20:51

or something right.

[justin]: 00:20:53

Yeah,

[tanner_weyland] 00:20:53

I should have been more flexible that way, but instead I was like, what's he doing? you know, and

[justin]: 00:20:59

Yeah,

[tanner_weyland] 00:20:59

that didn't work out.

[justin]: 00:21:00

yeah, see, I think that's such an interesting situation because it brings in a lot of other aspects, so for example,

[justin]: 00:21:09

like you might go the route of playing it out a lot more, and kind of like developing that. I would only recommend

[justin]: 00:21:16

that if your other players can sit still and listen

[tanner_weyland] 00:21:20

Yes,

[justin]: 00:21:20

for that much time.

[tanner_weyland] 00:21:21

exactly

[justin]: 00:21:22

Otherwise you know role, move forward. The other thing that came to my mind is when your players do something Unexpected.

[justin]: 00:21:30

It's uh, it might be a good idea to also do something unexpected

[tanner_weyland] 00:21:35

Yes,

[justin]: 00:21:36

with what they're doing. So like you said, like, like you know, in my mind, I took it a step further. you know, they

[justin]: 00:21:42

robbed two houses. The local authorities are getting wise and so they start looking for this robber. Right and then

[tanner_weyland] 00:21:49

Hm,

[justin]: 00:21:49

the third house is actually someone who just murdered someone. So like you break in and you see a dead body and a serial

[justin]: 00:21:58

killer And either you fight the serial killer or you don't. But if you do, the local authorities start like you know.

[justin]: 00:22:06

In the next day they praise you Nd. they're like Hey, let's give a medal to this person. Meanwhile they're like Wow,

[justin]: 00:22:11

you have a lot of gold and kind of that idea of like,

[tanner_weyland] 00:22:14

Hm,

[justin]: 00:22:14

they're starting to look at you a little bit more critically because they're looking for this raburns anyway.

[tanner_weyland] 00:22:18

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:22:19

Um, kind of that unexpected aspect. The other thing I would add is with reward comes risk,

[tanner_weyland] 00:22:27

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:22:27

Right If they're go To get a reward, there needs to be some sort of risk. Uh, So with your idea of the roles, if

[justin]: 00:22:34

they're going to get money like they roll above a fifteen, they get money. I'd say if they roll below at five, they might

[justin]: 00:22:40

get thrown in jail.

[tanner_weyland] 00:22:41

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:22:41

you know.

[tanner_weyland] 00:22:42

exactly, and they lose a lot of money getting the bail or something

[justin]: 00:22:44

Yeah,

[tanner_weyland] 00:22:44

right.

[justin]: 00:22:45

Yeah, exactly. so I love that example like that. That's probably the best example in like the last ten podcasts we've

[justin]: 00:22:54

done just because it's so perfect, because it's going to happen right

[tanner_weyland] 00:22:59

Yep,

[justin]: 00:23:00

and it's like, what do you do? So

[tanner_weyland] 00:23:02

Yeah, and I think I love your suggestions because it's like it shows a fluidity. And and one thing I would have

[tanner_weyland] 00:23:11

told my younger self with this is be like Hey for the first session, you know, just make a goofy. Maybe give

[tanner_weyland] 00:23:16

them more than they'd expect. Not like a whole treasure load right, But give them a bit more then then you'd

[tanner_weyland] 00:23:25

maybe want to, and then between sessions think it out. Think about. hey, How can I do this in a way That's unexpected

[tanner_weyland] 00:23:33

for them Because they pulled one on me. What can I pull on them? That isn't just necessarily completely bad

[tanner_weyland] 00:23:39

Because you don't want to punish them. You know you want to make

[justin]: 00:23:42

Hm?

[tanner_weyland] 00:23:42

it fun. And I like your suggestion by. like, Hey, They actually got into the house. They caught the person

[tanner_weyland] 00:23:47

and then the town. They're here now, but now everybody knows their face, So if someone goes and gets robbed

[tanner_weyland] 00:23:54

by them, you know the police

[justin]: 00:23:57

Yeah,

[tanner_weyland] 00:23:57

know where to go. M.

[justin]: 00:23:58

exactly,

[tanner_weyland] 00:23:59

Yeah, so I love that and I think that You know if you have a hard time responding to players creativity, what

[tanner_weyland] 00:24:08

I would do is. Uh, is you know you're going to have to practice it, But also if it's a longer form creativity

[tanner_weyland] 00:24:15

kind of thing, and players like, Hey, I'd like to do this. Then find a way to postpone it. You know, Have an

[tanner_weyland] 00:24:21

m. p. C be like. Oh, you want to go to that bridge and in your mind you're thinking I haven't planned the

[tanner_weyland] 00:24:26

bridge. The bridge is nowhere in my mind, then have an M. p C B. Like, Oh, actually, the river over Flood. It

[tanner_weyland] 00:24:32

overflowed the other day. However, I hear in a day or two it should be down and then

[justin]: 00:24:37

M.

[tanner_weyland] 00:24:37

after that session you go and plan something that you're like fun. Let's make this actually really fun instead

[tanner_weyland] 00:24:43

of something that I'm throwing together last minute that I'm sure I might show some of my impatient, or my.

[tanner_weyland] 00:24:50

you know,

[justin]: 00:24:50

Yeah,

[tanner_weyland] 00:24:51

my lack of being flexible with right,

[justin]: 00:24:55

Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with asking your players outright Like I'll be honest. This might have broken the immersion,

[justin]: 00:25:03

but our last session, the players like the session ended with them outside the city walls of Water Deep, planning to go

[justin]: 00:25:11

inside. And so I literally said, I ended and I said, Okay, Next session you will be going into water deep, because

[justin]: 00:25:17

you already said we're going into water deep.

[tanner_weyland] 00:25:20

Hm,

[justin]: 00:25:20

So I want to know what are things you want to do in Water deep. You know, I literally went around the table and I

[justin]: 00:25:26

asked them, and I wrote it all down and over these last few weeks I've been preparing and you know things like that,

[justin]: 00:25:31

there's going to be stuff that they didn't tell me or what not, but at least this way when they're like, Oh, I want

[justin]: 00:25:37

to go sell this dwarf in funeral mask. I'm gonna be like cool. You go to find you know, and I'm going to have kind

[justin]: 00:25:43

of an answer that makes them feel honestly. It makes them feel important because

[tanner_weyland] 00:25:47

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:25:47

they're like. Oh, you know,

[tanner_weyland] 00:25:49

I'm more immersed as well because you've had time to prepare.

[justin]: 00:25:53

Yeah,

[tanner_weyland] 00:25:53

That's great. Honestly, I agree. I think a big part of preventing boredom from like the aspect of the players

[tanner_weyland] 00:26:00

not contributing is asking them what they like to do Right. If you ask them their plans, their hopes their goals

[tanner_weyland] 00:26:07

for their character, then you'll be able to prepare for it and you'll be able to give them something really

[tanner_weyland] 00:26:13

good in return.

[justin]: 00:26:15

Exactly exactly. I mean. I'm sure there's lots of other stuff we could add. We're actually kind of running up on time,

[justin]: 00:26:23

so last thing I would say is if your players are not contributing in the way, you'd like them to sit down and have

[justin]: 00:26:32

a chat with them, and if needed, have just a session with just them so they can really get to feel what it's like

[justin]: 00:26:38

to have the spotlight on them, you know, and have fun like that, But try those two things and see if that helps Anything

[justin]: 00:26:46

else. You'd like

[tanner_weyland] 00:26:47

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:26:47

to add Tanner.

[tanner_weyland] 00:26:48

uh, no, I think that we've said it pretty well, and and in many ways the like. While we give specific tips, there's

[tanner_weyland] 00:26:59

certain types of fields. to what creative and an energizing game is like, right. a creative

[justin]: 00:27:07

Hm,

[tanner_weyland] 00:27:07

game is, and an energizing game is one where you can feel the d M getting better session after session. It's

[tanner_weyland] 00:27:14

one where you can feel like the players are Contributing in the creation process and they're being heard

[tanner_weyland] 00:27:20

and communication is just flowing both ways, right, um, and whatever form that takes great, But if you're

[tanner_weyland] 00:27:27

able to do that then I think you're gonna have a hard time getting bored.

[justin]: 00:27:32

Exactly exactly. So thank you for listening to today's show. Uh, we hope that your boredom or burn out disappears. And

[justin]: 00:27:40

and if it does or doesn't let us know, go ahead and reach out to us on Instagram at how to be a better D. M. we'll

[justin]: 00:27:46

be back next week for another amazing episode, But until then let's go ahead and roll initiative.